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Thread: Meat and Dairy consumption - Our Environment, Human Health, Ethics and Animal Cruelty

  1. #1

    Meat and Dairy consumption - Our Environment, Human Health, Ethics and Animal Cruelty

    As we are an environmentally committed group of individuals, since joining the NM I have conducted some research into the optimum healthy diet for all humanity, and most importantly for our precious planet Earth.

    The first thing I need to make very clear is that I am not blaming anyone here for consuming meat and dairy without knowing these hidden, and indeed in many cases deliberately obscured facts. I ate meat and dairy for 43 years. It tastes great, I will give you that one for free :).

    It is my hope that by presenting clear evidence-based arguments, stimulating Knowledge and challenging the status quo, real change can be made on Earth, for the Earth.

    The meat industry, and the even more cruel dairy industry, have huge wallets in every country. Individuals are very emotionally attached to their dinner plates, groups perhaps more so. Groups are simply made up of many individuals, so - change your consciousness, change yourself, change the group, change your nation, change the world.

    The guiding principle when watching these films should be :-

    If it is NOT good enough for your eyes and ears - why do you CHOOSE put it into your mouth and body?

    'Your body is a temple', 'you are what you eat', 'We are all One' - these phrases have real meaning, when contemplated in the light of real information.

    My challenge is simple - watch 4 (any 4 of your choice) of these videos, one from each section, and see if that changes your perspective to a Greater Perspective. It is a healthier perspective, a cleaner perspective, an ecologically aware perspective and a rational AND spiritual perspective. It is a perspective with a FUTURE.

    Finally, when considering the following, please understand that Milk is effectively Liquid Meat - the other, OTHER white meat ;) We are without exception the only species on our planet that consumes the milk of another mammal. Not even calves drink their mothers milk once they wean. Neither do humans, yet we ingest cow milk and its by products by the gallon with terrible effects on the human system, our ecology and by no means least at the huge individual cost to these animals - I would say our brothers and sisters.

    Personally I would recommend that anyone watches Dr John McDougall on milk - whether or not they are prepared to even consider a plant based diet. If it is a choice between the two, give up dairy first.

    Firstly, here are 3 general availability documentaries you may be able to view or grab somewhere, they appear to be pay per view or via Netflix or other services. You can't see these free online so they don't count :p.

    Food Inc
    http://www.takepart.com/foodinc/film
    Also available on Netflix

    Food Matters
    http://www.foodmatters.tv/
    Available on Netflix

    Vegucated
    http://www.getvegucated.com/
    3 meat and dairy eaters take a 30 day vegan challenge.

    Now - on with the show...


    Our Environment

    These are the facts nobody wants to hear, and yet they are undeniable.

    The meat and dairy industry is the #1 global driver of Climate Change, being responsible for more CO2 than every car, bus, train, plane and boat on the planet combined, and every factory, warehouse, power station and retail centre combined globally. It uses the major share of all clean drinking water, and pollution from agricultural run off kills our river systems, lakes, rivers and seas. Many of the west's key aquifers, where we all get our drinking water from, have been depleted or are in crisis, and nitrate contamination from animal effluent poisons the rest. If we continue to consume a meat based diet, we will need at least 2 whole Earths to produce enough, even without factoring in population growth. We only ever will have one Earth, so as a species we need to reduce the amount of resources we all use by making smarter better informed choices, including but not limited to food choices.

    If people aren't willing to give up meat and dairy, the alternative as we have seen (for those inhumane and greedy enough to think like this) is massive depopulation simply in order that the rich nations can continue to kill themselves and the planet with every fork full, while starving the poor nations to death. This is mass delusion. Its insanity, and it is the very definition of the word 'unsustainable'.


    Richard Oppenlander (PhD): Your Role in Global Depletion: New Perspectives from Comfortably Unaware
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drS5hHdelR8


    Diet for a New America,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yResu...6FBE854A537B6B
    Based on the best selling book that started it all, John Robbins' excellent PBS documentary - this information is at least 25 years old now! John Robbins was heir to the Baskin Robbins Ice Cream empire built by his family. He watched his dad, uncles and family friends die of heart disease while he snuck out to eat spinach as a child. Fascinating story.


    Mad Cowboy - Documentary Part 1 of 6
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK4_ui_aTb0
    4th generation Montana beef cattle rancher turned Vegan and on a mission to save the Earth.


    Sustainability and Food Choice: Why Eating Local, "Less" Meat, and Taking Baby Steps Won't Work
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fws0f9s4Bas
    Richard Oppenlander again at John McDougall's Advanced Studies Weekend in March 2013


    Jonathan Foley: The other inconvenient truth
    http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_fo...ent_truth.html
    The impact of agriculture generally on the global ecosystem. Remember that the majority of cereal crops crown globally are diverted from human mouths to animal feed while children starve every day...


    Human Health

    The science now says that human beings are NOT evolved as Carnivores, nor even as Omnivores - we are anatomically herbivores. We have used technology to adapt our diet for 4.2 million years, and have to use both fire and technology to get our meat and to process it so it is even digestible. Once you recognise this, our food choice becomes an artifact of our cultures, and an ethical lifestyle choice, which is dealt with in the Ethics and Animal Cruelty sections below.

    Meat and Dairy are not foods, but they ARE huge businesses, bigger than the Tobacco industry, more unethical and brutal in their consequences given the death toll they exhort from Humanity, and they operate with the same bought and paid for expert witnesses, doctors and politicians, lying to get by in life. The medical studies have been done, then buried, and the vast PR budgets (or propaganda as it was originally called) has meant that in the past that nobody has an unbiased evidence base from which to argue. This has changed.


    Lessons from The China Project
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uth-FCyFgYo
    Biggest study ever on human population diet effects - meat and dairy are PROVEN to be mass killers.


    Truth or Dairy. Dr John McDougall
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGCdc9quABU
    Science based evidence for the harmful effects of cow milk and cheese on humans (or as I call milk Liquid Meat with extra Bovine Immune Deficiency Virus (Cow AIDS) and Bovine Lukemia Virus (found in breast cancers) infections, pus cells, bacteria, hormones, antibiotics etc.). The dairy industry has $200m dollars for pro dairy campaigns per year.

    The dairy industry has employed scientists who do exactly what Dr's and scientists did for the tobacco industry. IGF-1 comes from pregnant cows milk and causes cancer in humans - it is a growth hormone and causes ALL cancers. Its not present in plant based foods at all.


    Are Humans Designed To Eat Meat?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH-hs2v-UjI
    Ironically - No.

    According to this lecture 90% of people who choke to death every year in the US do so on meat, simply because our oesophagus is anatomically herbivore. Dr Heimlich co-invented the famous Heimlich maneuver now known as 'abdominal thrusts', is now a Vegan after attending one of Dr John McDougall's sessions.


    Dr Dean Ornish: The world's killer diet
    http://www.ted.com/talks/dean_ornish...ller_diet.html
    Dean Ornish M.D. has successfully REVERSED and cured heart disease. His highest profile is Bill Clinton, who is now Vegan (see below).


    Dean Ornish: Healing through diet
    http://www.ted.com/talks/dean_ornish_on_healing.html


    TEDxCambridge - Caldwell Esselstyn on making heart attacks history
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqKNfyUPzoU


    The Role of Meat in the Human Diet - John McDougall
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MKofmjCLYM


    Bill Clinton: Fan of Caldwell Esselstyn Jr MD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPpcBMwLg2Q


    Goji Juice: Blood before & after taking Goji Juice
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzV5I...6FBE854A537B6B
    A video microscope view of the blood of a meat and dairy eater who is suffering from acidic blood caused by animal protein consumption - this patient is heading for a heart attack, stroke, thrombosis, diabetes, all diseases of a cholesterol filled animal protein based diet. A radically changed diet and drinking Goji juice 3 times a day has dramatic results on this patient's health.


    Ethics

    To frame this debate, in your mind first consider the following July 2012 announcement.

    Scientists Finally Conclude Nonhuman Animals Are Conscious Beings
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...nscious-beings
    from the above Psychology Today article...

    "The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness
    The scientists went as far as to write up what's called The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness that basically declares that this prominent international group of scientists agree that "Convergent evidence indicates that non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates." They could also have included fish, for whom the evidence supporting sentience and consciousness is also compelling (see also). "


    Why Vegan? Lessons from an Animal Scientist
    http://youtu.be/5ZYQnt-67vs


    Peter Singer vs Richard Dawkins on Animal Rights Ethics
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xxdMUuZXUY
    The author of Animal Cruelty discusses ethical eating with Dawkins.


    101 Reasons to go Vegan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TlHcEcUWUE
    Says it all, very effectively.


    Philip Wollen : Animals Should Be Off The Menu debate
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1wAs...6FBE854A537B6B
    Absolutely awesome video, a contender for the best speech ever...? A wake up call for Humanity (the species) and indeed humanity, the ethical concept.


    Full Debate - Animals Should Be Off The Menu; The St James Ethics & Wheeler Centre
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNED7...6FBE854A537B6B
    The full Intelligence Squared debate of the above clip - with pro and con arguments and an audience vote on the motion.


    Colleen Patrick-Goudreau: Debunking the Myths of Veganism
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od_cq...6FBE854A537B6B
    An awesome and amusing talk dispelling Myths about Veganism.


    Why Vegan? - Amazing Presentation by Gary Yourofsky
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UROxRLbVils
    Immotive, sometimes extreme and in your face, but undeniable compelling arguments on cruelty to animals.



    Animal Cruelty

    Again if it is not good enough for your eyes and ears, why is it good enough for your mouth and stomach?

    The unethical treatment of animals is the elephant in the room - how many people would honestly and realistically be willing and able to kill and eat a pig or a cow themselves, rather than go to the supermarket and pick up a sanitised pre-packed sliced dead pig, a headless plucked chicken, or a lump of cow which someone else has been paid to execute?

    These animals live their short lives in unspeakable conditions in factory arms. Also lets be plain and simple - there is no such thing as 'humane slaughter' - this is a meat industry marketing ploy to keep us asleep to the fact that billions of animals are destroyed every year to feed a minority of the worlds population.

    See Earthlings for many examples and judge for yourselves. This meat contains the hormones of stress and death, anxiety and suffering. You are what you eat, and you eat what you choose.


    Earthlings - Full length documentary
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys
    Real footage from slaughterhouses, factory farms and animal transport. This is NOT for the faint hearted. I would challenge any meat eater to sit through this entire movie and continue with a meat based diet. I managed 1/3rd of this film before I turned Vegan. This is where our 'food' comes from.


    Meet Your Meat - How Farm Factories Work
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShNFRLCW2as
    Inside factory farms - again this is where the majority of meat and dairy consumed in the west comes from.


    Meet the Super Cow
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmkj5gq1cQU
    Short segment - It's literally a 'double-muscled' monster and its not even GMO! When you eat it, it is STILL bad for you (see Human Health above). Ask yourself if the treatment of animals like this is ethical, desirable or sustainable? Who advocates for the cows rights?


    The Multi-Billion Dollar Lie: Animal Experimentation
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLKaH...6FBE854A537B6B
    Not food based but makes a compelling additional case for ending animal testing not just in cosmetics but also in pharma and medical research. Most of it does not translate to humans. Its a hidden, artificial, profit based animal supply industry, it is unnecessary and is unethical.



    Addendum: Superfood Advice

    These are all good pointers to start looking for new sustainable foods.


    David Wolfe on SuperFoods
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZZAG...6FBE854A537B6B
    Eat better, feel better, think better.

    Dr. Gabriel Cousens, "How to be a 100% Successful Vegan"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0hMVbrVjNg


    Spirulina -The Amazing Algae (50min) - FULL DOCUMENTARY [HD 1080p]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIh-l18yxVc


    Growing Spirulina Algae in a Village in West Africa
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxSA5iiGgiY


    Benefits of Spirulina - Dr Mercola
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQvTRu5-vXg
    Last edited by kadath123; 08-17-2013 at 04:24 AM. Reason: Added Spirulina full documentary

  2. #2
    /BUMP!

    At this point there have been 50 views of the thread, and zero discussion, so I can only assume that there is a degree of ambivalence within the New Message community, which I have encountered almost universally when discussing this subject with others.

    I would like to bring the teachings into this debate, and indeed some debate into this debate!

    From the Revelation - Nature and Natural Disasters

    http://www.newmessage.org/nm/nature-...ral-disasters/

    Humanity’s overuse and abuse of the world is now changing the natural balance, and this change is not in your favor. And even at this moment, nations and peoples do not seem to comprehend the magnitude of what is happening. People do not want to give up their privileges. Networks of trade and the exploitation of resources are now well established. People do not want to restrain themselves. In certain wealthy nations, limits will be placed, but in other nations, there are no such limits and no such restraints.

    This means that humanity will further impact the natural environment, and the natural environment will further impact humanity. In the end, of course, nature will be victorious, but this creates a dilemma, you see, a fundamental dilemma because greater than your national laws, greater than your social customs, greater than your religious beliefs, greater than your individual or national attitudes or perspective is your fundamental relationship with nature—your relationship with your environment.

    Humanity as a whole has lost touch with this, has lost the recognition of the power and the importance of your relationship with your environment. You feel that with technology you can overcome the forces of nature, and to a certain degree, you can harness these forces, but you cannot overcome them. Throughout the Universe, powerful nations have tried but have only found themselves to be at the mercy of the greater powers and forces of nature.

    At this moment, humanity, like an adolescent, is giddy with its own power, thinking that it has the ability to transcend the natural world, to create an environment not subject to the forces of nature. But this is not true. And you are experiencing, even at this moment, the powerful response, the powerful reaction of natural law to human abuse and human irresponsibility, and the results are tragic.

    Your planet is getting warmer. Hotter. Drier. It is driving change. The world will change to a new kind of balance, but it will not be a balance that will be favorable to the human family. And the only way to alter this and to prevent this outcome would be a radical change in human behavior and activity and governance, which are unlikely to happen any time soon.

    <snip>

    If humanity exhausts the resources of this world, it will fall under the persuasion of foreign powers in the Universe who will seek to exploit a weak and divided humanity. They will seek to gain control of the world’s natural beauty and resources, a world rich with biological diversity, a world highly valued by others.

    They will not come now because they will not use force. Force is not the strength they will use. It will be the force of persuasion, and the more destitute humanity becomes as a result of its own behavior, the more powerful this persuasion will be and the less humanity will be able to resist the temptation of the offerings of those who come under the pretension of being here for peaceful purposes, but who in fact are here to take advantage of you and your situation.

    These forces will be small, but clever. They will see that you have robbed yourself, and that now you are poor, and that you will not be in a position to resist the temptation of what they have to offer—stability, security, resources, things that you have given away, things that have been sacrificed here on Earth.


    That is not me saying it, it is not even Marshall saying it - these are the words of the Angelic Assembly, they are the words of God. So, here is the bottom line environmentally.

    STOP EATING MEAT AND DAIRY OR LOOSE THE PLANET TO THE INTERVENTION.

    Discuss :)

    Nasi Novare Coram <3

    Greg_UK
    Last edited by kadath123; 08-11-2013 at 07:32 AM.

  3. #3
    Thank you for your contribution with this information. This is a great example of how people's actions are greatly impacting the environment and contributing to yet another Great Wave of Change. A great opportunity this is to change one's behavior to help change this outcome to help heal/restore Earth. This information in addition to its relationship to the Great Waves of Change,also is related to the Greater Community. After reading the Allies Briefings and Life in the Universe, I have gained the insights of the way humans treat "their" animals is also how Alien Races have treated and will treat humanity. So as you read the information presented, think of humanity in the place of the animals..Another urgent call to action to spread the New Message to humanity to raise the awareness of humanity. As above, so below. - Paul

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    245
    Kadath,
    I see the issue of meat/dairy as just one of the many great waves of change. In the near future, animal food products will be prohibitively expensive to buy for a vast majority of thw world's population. In fact, that situation may exist now. The droughts last summer around the world affected grain prices which affected meat prices.

    Meat by itself is not evil or wrong in my opinion. It is a wonderful, concentrated source of protein. However, the scale upon which factory farming is practiced is surely an abuse of nature's bounty which is due to catch up with us as a species.

    The Meatrix is a VERY FUNNY look at factory meat production. It is a four minute animated film sure to bring a laugh and a new perspective on the issue: www.TheMeatrix.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Queensland Australia
    Posts
    450
    I initially did not comment because, ideally, I try to stay out of divisive situations that contain judgement, like the following:
    ...The first thing I need to make very clear is that I am not blaming anyone here for consuming meat and dairy without knowing these hidden, and indeed in many cases deliberately obscured facts. ...
    Sort of a 'lenient' start, but the bottom line is:
    ...If people aren't willing to give up meat and dairy, the alternative as we have seen (for those inhumane and greedy enough to think like this) is massive depopulation simply in order that the rich nations can continue to kill themselves and the planet with every fork full, while starving the poor nations to death. This is mass delusion. Its insanity, ...
    Greedy, inhumane, insane; yes, if the info you presented were 100% correct.
    Even your BUMP post is accusatory:
    Quote Originally Posted by kadath123 View Post
    ...I can only assume that there is a degree of ambivalence within the New Message community, ...
    So your info is 100% correct (which would be quite ambitious considering the cocktail of true facts, opinions, assumptions, hypotheses etc. that you presented) and the NM people are ambivalent - hard to accept, as far as I'm concerned.
    Also, I imagine if the NM people, in order to avoid this alleged ambivalence, were to dwell on who is a meat/dairy eater and who is not...What do you think would happen? A schism...the Intervention would love that: one group would say 'we are the righteous ones, we don't eat meat/dairy, the Angelic Assembly is on our side...' the other group would say the opposite, the Angelic Assembly would probably stop talking to humans, the Intervention would say 'mission accomplished'.
    That is why I mentioned the 'divisive' aspect.
    ...
    That is not me saying it, it is not even Marshall saying it - these are the words of the Angelic Assembly, they are the words of God. So, here is the bottom line environmentally.

    STOP EATING MEAT AND DAIRY OR LOOSE THE PLANET TO THE INTERVENTION.

    ...
    Ambiguous.
    The words of God are the ones you quoted, the 'bottom line' is yours.
    Very easy for someone to understand, instead, that it is the NM that makes such a statement, but nowhere in the New Message writings, or the Allies' briefings, there is such a statement. This is your own conclusion.
    The New Message arrives to us with its own commentary to avoid what happened to previous Revelations where humans have done just that, added their own conclusions, their own commentaries in an ambiguous context where it was understood that God said it - exactly what you did here.
    I am totally against cruelty inflicted on animals, and am against a lot of the problems that you mention, but I will NOT accept any campaign against such problems if it is done at the expense of the INTEGRITY OF THE NEW MESSAGE.

  6. #6
    Interesting post Kadath... I am mostly vegeterian, but eat fish now an then. I was compelled to do so because of some of the information you have presented above. However, I have come to realise that if one educates themselves about what's in our food in general. There will be nothing left to eat lol... Even though I do not eat meat myself, and I am not qualified to know whether meat is bad to ingest or not (in its clean and natural state), I do know that ethically it is not right to treat animals they way mainstream business does. It is shocking, literally! however, there are always local farmers that produces grass-fed live stock and as well as raw milk (which apperantly is much healthier than antibiotic and hormone ridden pesteurised milk). I am not convinced that properly grown live stock is bad for human consumption... but then again we learn everyday, one can never be certain of these things.

    I also wanted to say that, just like all of you here, I find the New Message to be such a beautiful Truth, one just knows this through and through. I think that Truth needs no defence, it can take care of its self. It needs no debate as it is self-evident. It always stands on its own, it needs nothing. It can stand the test of time. It is unaffected by misinformation. It just is...beautiful and "inconvenient" at the same time.

    May we find our Truth.
    Last edited by 11:11; 08-12-2013 at 02:55 AM.

  7. #7
    raoul

    Thank you for your frank personal response, which I shall now respectfully disagree with.

    I am interested which pieces of evidence you evaluated before responding, given that my intent is not to be 'divisive' nor promote 'schism', but to present a reasoned, evidence based argument that challenges the status quo.

    Firstly, let me present you with some chronology - I was an atheist, then I was struck by a Ray of Initiation and so reconnected with Knowledge, which in turn led me to the NM and Allies of Humanity material. Following several months of study during which my spiritual experience has accelerated I then made the conscious decision to stop eating meat and dairy based on the arguments presented in my original post. This is due to my increased sensitivity to the plight of the environment which Humanity is causing due to its voracious and ignorant overuse of the natural resources of the Earth, including the sentient living resources we depersonalise, murder and consume.

    From an environmental perspective, it is now well known that the greatest impact each individual has on the planet is caused by their dietary choices - not by the type of car they chose to drive, not by their conscientious moderation of energy resources, but by the food they choose to eat every meal, every day for their entire lives.

    No matter how energy conscious a person is, if they drive a hybrid car and turn off appliances at the mains rather than using stand-by settings, if they chose to use a cycle for short journeys or use public transport - all of these small changes to lifestyle when added together cumulatively through a person's lifetime are completely eclipsed by the amount of energy and water resources consumed by the animals, which they will in turn consume if they eat meat. I challenge you to DO THE MATH.

    The environmental impact of a steak is truly immense when you factor in all these resources (land availability, grain and other plant resources which are diverted from the mouths of starving human populations and fed with breathtaking inefficiency to domesticated animals on a 10:1 ratio pound for pound to produce protein from meat, the millions of gallons of fresh water consumed by those animals during their lifetimes, the fact that there are in excess of 100 billion domesticated animals bred and reared on Earth in any one year when there are merely 7 billion humans - chickens, pigs, sheep, cows, goats, fish all consume resources during their lives and their populations are artificially, unsustainable inflated in order to satisfy an unhealthy and damaging addiction of humanity to animal protein, which in turn damages our health when consumed as food! These are the FACTS - if my attempt to bring them to the surface of peoples consciousness is initially interpreted by some knee-jerk reaction of yours as divisive then so be it, but I say again - humanity cannot afford to continue to eat in this inefficient manner.

    Do you seriously consider that the cultures of the Allies of Humanity's homeworlds, cultures which are strong with Knowledge and who live in balance with their ecosystems by their own admission, do you think these planets populations eat animal protein? It is our responsibility to address the imbalances of human civilisation and it is a mathematically inescapable fact that we will need AT LEAST 2 Earths, if individuals of humanity wish to continue to fork dozens of chickens, pigs, cows and fish into our collective stomachs without a thought for the cost environmentally and the cost to our civilisations values as a whole (see the section on ETHICS in the original post). It is this kind of blind ignorance that has instigated the Great Waves of Change and nature will not support us if this continues.

    Your contention that I am trying to destabilise the NM community and cause schism is quite frankly infantile reasoning. Your food choices effects me, my family and every other individual who breaths the atmosphere and depends on the Earth's environment for survival - if my presentation makes you uncomfortable - GOOD. You need to be woken up to the environmental consequences of your choices. These are choices which I am guilty of making in the past myself hence my initial caveat that I do not blame individuals who continue to consume meat and dairy daily when the facts about the environment are deliberately obscured by the very industries who commit these environmental crimes, egged on (pun intended) by a population addicted to animal rather than plant protein.

    You may seek to challenge my qualifications to speak on such subjects in an attempt to discredit the source of the information rather than addressing the issues themselves, but I can tell you I have a very well developed intellectual capacity and an academic background in human evolution, economy and the impact of the spread of farming following the end of the last Ice Age to the present day. I have and will continue to argue these issues all day with the best of them because they are in accordance with Knowledge first and foremost, but also that my critical thinking skills and appreciation of science are very well developed.

    I am NOT and have not promoted a community response where people turn on one another with some sort of holier than thou attitude about who is righteous and who is not over the meat/dairy issue - it was YOU who presented that interpretation. I stated originally that I was appealing to individuals only, and asking each and every person to honestly evaluate their feelings in the light of the evidence which I have presented here. Your attempt to characterise my post as anything other than an honest attempt to present an alternative view is both weak and transparent. Stick to the facts bro :)

    I am totally against cruelty inflicted on animals, and am against a lot of the problems that you mention, but I will NOT accept any campaign against such problems if it is done at the expense of the INTEGRITY OF THE NEW MESSAGE.
    Firstly - so why do you still eat them? You think these animals are lining up willingly to have their throats slit and be skinned alive simply to satisfy your addiction to their bodies? These are living creatures, and as such are a conscious part of our Earthly ecosystem (see the section on ANIMAL CRUELTY in the OP).

    Secondly - your assertion that I am attempting to destabilise the NM in some kind of ill informed 'campaign' is both arrogant and ridiculous. The only thing I am attempting to destabilise is your dinner plate! Your fork is a weapon of mass destruction and you need to wake up to that fact. I am a person of the New Message just as you are, and for you to set yourself up as some sort of guardian of the Revelation says more about you than it does about anyone else in this community, whether they eat meat or not - it is sheer arrogance. Have a word with yourself.

    Perhaps you ought to spend more time wrestling with your ego than appointing yourself as some kind of guardian of this community and the New Message, without having been appointed to that position by that community.

    Nasi Novare Coram

    Greg Phillips
    Last edited by kadath123; 08-12-2013 at 05:07 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Thank you for your contribution with this information. This is a great example of how people's actions are greatly impacting the environment and contributing to yet another Great Wave of Change. A great opportunity this is to change one's behavior to help change this outcome to help heal/restore Earth. This information in addition to its relationship to the Great Waves of Change,also is related to the Greater Community. After reading the Allies Briefings and Life in the Universe, I have gained the insights of the way humans treat "their" animals is also how Alien Races have treated and will treat humanity. So as you read the information presented, think of humanity in the place of the animals..Another urgent call to action to spread the New Message to humanity to raise the awareness of humanity. As above, so below. - Paul
    Thank you Paul, you are very welcome :)

    As I have mentioned this change is within the grasp of every person on Earth. I have been vegan for 7 months now and am happy to report zero ill effects of a plant based diet, I am still alive and will continue to live a life without exploiting animals for their protein whilst promoting real change in all societies.

    Greg

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBerger View Post
    Kadath,
    I see the issue of meat/dairy as just one of the many great waves of change. In the near future, animal food products will be prohibitively expensive to buy for a vast majority of thw world's population. In fact, that situation may exist now. The droughts last summer around the world affected grain prices which affected meat prices.

    Meat by itself is not evil or wrong in my opinion. It is a wonderful, concentrated source of protein. However, the scale upon which factory farming is practiced is surely an abuse of nature's bounty which is due to catch up with us as a species.

    The Meatrix is a VERY FUNNY look at factory meat production. It is a four minute animated film sure to bring a laugh and a new perspective on the issue: www.TheMeatrix.com
    Thanks for this Mark - I hadn't watched that myself but have now:).

    Whilst it is a step in the right direction, once we begin to look critically at diet from a global perspective and discard the illusory reasoning promoted by the vested economic interests of the meat/dairy industries it becomes apparent from a global perspective that it is our use of animals which has driven our current environmental collapse. So The Meatrix describes my previous position, where I tried to eat ethical meat wherever possible.

    Now I realise - there is no such thing as ethical meat, no such thing as humane slaughter, and the impact of consuming these products has spread the diseases of Kings and Queens to the general population hence the epidemic of diabetes, atherosclerosis which leads to heart disease, strokes, thrombosis and cancers which ravage humanity in developed wealthy nations - and make billions for the pharmaceutical industries, who then have their own vested interest in promoting meat and dairy consumption rather than healthy plant based foods as a basis of an healthy ethical lifestyle.

    Think of it this way - one fork full is a nail in the coffin of the ecosystem, an alternative fork full promotes non-violence, compassion and an increase in human health WHILST saving the environment.

    It is a terrible situation which will be thrown into sharp relief in the face of the Great Waves.

    Greg

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 11:11 View Post
    Interesting post Kadath... I am mostly vegeterian, but eat fish now an then. I was compelled to do so because of some of the information you have presented above. However, I have come to realise that if one educates themselves about what's in our food in general. There will be nothing left to eat lol... Even though I do not eat meat myself, and I am not qualified to know whether meat is bad to ingest or not (in its clean and natural state), I do know that ethically it is not right to treat animals they way mainstream business does. It is shocking, literally! however, there are always local farmers that produces grass-fed live stock and as well as raw milk (which apperantly is much healthier than antibiotic and hormone ridden pesteurised milk). I am not convinced that properly grown live stock is bad for human consumption... but then again we learn everyday, one can never be certain of these things.

    I also wanted to say that, just like all of you here, I find the New Message to be such a beautiful Truth, one just knows this through and through. I think that Truth needs no defence, it can take care of its self. It needs no debate as it is self-evident. It always stands on its own, it needs nothing. It can stand the test of time. It is unaffected by misinformation. It just is...beautiful and "inconvenient" at the same time.

    May we find our Truth.
    Hi 11:11 and thanks for your response :)

    Good for you, any reduction in meat and dairy consumption is a step in the right direction. Education is certainly required in order to shift your diet onto a more ethical and sustainable footing. Fresh fruit and vegetables, nuts, seeds, plant milks, pulses and Spirulina (freshwater algae which has been assessed by the UN as the optimum food for humanity) provide all our biological needs for a healthy and balanced diet. People always say - Oh no where do you get your protein! The same place as the animals who eat plant based diets in order to build fat and muscle which we then consume.

    If we took that plant food and instead of importing it at great expense and feeding that to livestock fed it to starving human populations we could wipe out hunger globally overnight - it is simply a matter of distribution.

    Spirulina is over 60% plant protein, and contains not only all the essential fatty acids our bodies need to run, yes including human absorb-able B12, it contains Omega 3 6 and 9, all the vitamins and minerals required to SUPPLEMENT a completely plant based diet. :)

    Thanks for your response I appreciate the time taken :)

    Nasi Novare Coram

    Greg

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